There Is No Need of Christs Second Coming Because He said, It Is Finished?

wmscogIn order to deny the?Second Coming Christ?Ahnsahnghong, some people insist that since Jesus fulfilled everything, when he said,“It is finished,” on the cross, so there is no need of His?second coming.

Then, is there no more redemption work since Jesus said, “It is finished,” as they insist?

Even after Jesus died on the cross, saying, “It is finished,” He was resurrected and appeared before His disciples and taught them the works of the kingdom of God for 40 days. And after He ascended to heaven, He poured out the Holy Spirit on the Pentecost and kept accomplishing all the works of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, even after Jesus said, “It is finished,” He carried out the work of salvation.

Then, what do the words, “It is finished” mean??It means that He fulfilled all the prophecies of the Bible, which must be fulfilled until He passes away on the cross.

Jesus said, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”?The day when Christ’s redemption work is finished is the time when we enter the eternal rest which is prophesied in Revelation.

Therefore, the insistence that there is no work of the?Second Coming Christ?since Jesus said, “It is finished,” is wrong, and it is even to deny all of God’s redemption works which are to be fulfilled from the crucifixion till the last day.

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0 thoughts on “There Is No Need of Christs Second Coming Because He said, It Is Finished?

  • January 25, 2012 at 3:34 pm
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    Then, What is the absolute sign for us to recognize the Second Coming Christ?

    Reply
    • February 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm
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      Stephany Hello. if you want to know more about the 2nd coming do not hesitate to visit the nearest WMSCOG at your place 🙂

      Reply
    • February 14, 2012 at 12:30 am
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      Hello! We can know about Christ through the bible.
      Christ Ahnsahnghong is testified by the bible through many prophesies.
      Do you know about the prophecy of King David?
      2nd Coming Chirst must fulfill the prophecy of King David.
      He must get baptized at 30 years old and reign His ministry for 37 years.
      He is Ahnsahnghong! Therefore, WMSCOG believes in Christ Ahnsahnghong! 😀

      If you wanna learn more, I’ll recommend this website.

      http://english.watv.org

      Reply
  • March 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm
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    Christ Ahnsahnghong is the 2nd Coming Christ in this last age!!
    Lk 13:49~50[ I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindeled!
    But I have a baptism to undergo, how distressed I am until it is completed! ]
    2,000 years ago, Jesus delivered the gospel for our salvation after baptism. However, Jesus said again in this way!!
    We must not ignore this teaching in the bible. Christ Ahnsahnghong began to preach the gospel after baptism in 1948 according to the prophecy of King David. The bible clearly testifies about Christ Ahnsahnghong !!

    Reply
  • April 8, 2012 at 11:22 pm
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    As a Christian, I agree with this article.
    If all the works of salvation were finished, there is no need for me to believe God in order to get salvation nowadays.

    Reply
    • August 14, 2012 at 3:10 pm
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      Right !! Even though some people don’t believe in God. Doesn’t God want us to know the existence of God and the truth of the bible? He promised us to come again to bring salvation.
      I give thank to Elohim God who came to this sinful world to find out the lost children.

      Reply
  • April 9, 2012 at 10:57 pm
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    If all the salvation works were finished, how can the Bible testify that Jesus will come a second time?

    Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

    The Bible surely says that Jesus will appear a second time to bring salvation and Christ Ahnsahnghong is the Second Coming Jesus who brought us salvation through the Passover.

    Reply
    • July 15, 2013 at 11:51 am
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      Right, “It is finished.” means Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies which must have been accomplished until He passes away on the cross.

      Reply
  • May 26, 2012 at 3:09 am
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    If their interpretation were correct, how would they interpret when Jesus says “it is done” in the book of revelation ? Obviously the Book of Revelations was written after 1st coming Christ. So the words “it is done” implies that even after his first coming there was salvation work which still had to be carried out for us. Thanks be to Christ Ahnsahnghong for teaching us the truths of the Bible and clarifying everything to us.

    Reply
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  • August 14, 2012 at 3:03 pm
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    Jesus said that he will come again to lead his people in the last age as a shepherd who is our savior.

    Jo 10:16
    I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

    We should study the reason why the second coming Jesus come again in this sinful world through the bible.

    Reply
  • September 23, 2012 at 10:35 pm
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    wow…how can they slander the truth insisting like that? if they are right, then we might not need anything~ anyone; why? because it is all finished.

    Reply
  • September 23, 2012 at 10:38 pm
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    their insistence totally doesn’t make sense at all.
    If they are right, then we would not need the Bible even;why? because it is all finished.

    Reply
  • November 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm
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    If so, we will surely face the second death in the end. Why?
    It’s because no one can make us live forever.
    Facing the 2nd death means entering the hell, not heavenly kingdom!!!
    http://jerusalem144000.wordpress.com

    Reply
  • December 4, 2012 at 6:52 am
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    Just as the article stated Jesus continued to do the work of salvation even after the cross. Also the work of salvation is continuing untill this very day. Untill we go to heaven we must do the work of God.

    Reply
  • December 18, 2012 at 7:13 am
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    Heb 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

    Christ will appear a second time to bring what? Salvation. If the work of salvation has already been completed why would Christ come a second time? There would be no need for him to appear again. Only judgement would be required. But Christ Ahnsahnghong has come again and he has carried out the work of our salvation so that we may not taste death.

    Reply
  • January 11, 2013 at 6:45 am
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    The gospel work was spread after the cross, how can the work be finished and yet the gospel work was being done by the Apostles. It doesn’t add up. Also why are we still here on the earth. If it is all finished shouldn’t we be heaven by now.
    The work of Jesus was completed, his preaching, his teachings, and establishing the New covenant through the Passover, and finishing his work on the Cross.

    Reply
  • April 5, 2013 at 12:51 pm
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    If you go back to the original Greek where Jesus states “It is finished” from what I understand (I am not a Greek scholar myself by any means, however, it was explained to my by someone who was fluent in Biblical Greek) the original Greek term is apparently like those used in accounting meaning “it is paid in full.” Our debts were paid in full by His redemptive work on the cross. This website can say that “It means that He fulfilled all of the prophecies of the Bible, which must be fulfilled until He passes away on the cross…” but that doesn’t appear to come from any actual rendering of the literal text – it appears the text has more to do with complete payment than mere fulfillment of prophecy.

    He will come a second time, not to bear sin (that work has already been completed), but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him. How exactly does the WMSCOG define salvation? I’ve seen it defined by more “traditional” Christianity as the deliverance from the power and penalty of sin which seems like a very fitting definition especially in this context, but is that not what the WMSCOG means by this word?

    I am not denying that Jesus will come in the flesh the second time – that would be unbiblical, even though I believe we differ in how exactly Jesus will come (clouds=baby flesh as opposed to clouds=literal clouds). I just don’t understand the need to come again just to sacrifice more after reading Hebrews 9:28. I understand that text to mean that He will finally bring deliverance from this life of sin and death for those who are waiting for Him. I’ve tried to read as much as I can from the sermons etc. of the WMSCOG and can’t seem to come to terms with something like:

    In the Bible, we have to find our Father and Mother who have loved us to the point of death; They were rejected by men, took up our infirmities, and bore our iniquities; They were even treated as sinners and died in the place of sinners. See: http://english.watv.org/truth/sermon/content.asp?idx=1420

    After Jesus made full payment for our sins Jesus sent his Spirit as he promised:

    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever ? the Spirit of truth… But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you… But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (Various verses of John 14) and in Luke 24:45-49 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

    This promise was fulfilled in Acts 2. The Spirit has been doing this work ever since ? not by “sacrifice of ministry” but he has spread the gospel by using people to preach it (as documented in 1 Peter 1:12 for example). The need for more “sacrifice of ministry” doesn’t really make itself apparent… I’ve never come across any discussions/sermons on the subject from the WMSCOG yet so I was hoping someone could confirm: does the WMSCOG consider the work of the Spirit promised and sent by Jesus sufficient?

    Thanks for your time and consideration,
    Respectfully Yours

    Reply
    • April 13, 2013 at 7:11 am
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      Hello,

      I understand what you are saying. But you have to remember that God is spirit, not flesh. The physical body is a prison, or a tent, for the spirit. All physical beings are destined to death from the moment they are born. So if you acknowledge that He is coming a second time in the flesh, then you acknowledge that God will sacrifice again, since the mere fact of being in the flesh is an enormous sacrifice for God. To be in the flesh means to share in our humanity, to feel the same pain and suffering, hunger, temptations, and everything we go through. His second coming in the flesh is not going to be in His “glorified” or spiritual body, but it’s going to be in the flesh, as you yourself said, and as the Bible testifies.

      I hope that answered your question a little bit.

      Reply
      • April 16, 2013 at 12:02 pm
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        Thanks very much for your response, BCR. Unfortunately I still struggle with my questions though… Hebrews 10: 10 says “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” and in vs. 14 says “For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” If we are not made holy by any other sacrifice – what other sacrifice is necessary on our account? The Counselor sent at Pentecost has and is currently doing His work as Jesus promised and, while I suppose it could be possible that His work as a spirit didn’t go so well at first so perhaps God decided to send Him in a different form too, I tend toward believing that the Spirit that Jesus promised/sent is and always has been present in believers since Pentecost and that His sanctifying work in that capacity would be completely sufficient.

        I did say that I don’t deny that Jesus will come in the flesh – but by flesh I do not mean another physical perishable body. God did not let His “holy one see decay” (Acts 2 and 13) and Jesus was already raised imperishable (Romans 6:9-10, Revelation 1:18). I understand that God is spirit but after His resurrection Jesus somehow incorporates “flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39) without having to obey all the physical laws of our world (i.e. entering locked rooms, appearing/disappearing etc.) But if flesh is simply taken to mean a physical perishable body that is not a term I would use to accurately describe it.

        However, the Bible testifies that that same Jesus (identical/unchanged) who was taken up to heaven and hid by the clouds in Acts will return in the same way they saw Him go (not “the same way they saw him come” as stated by the WMSCOG members who visited my home, although it is possible that the language barrier may have led me to misunderstand/misquote them on that one). Coming in the same way that He left would be consistent with literal renderings of the things Jesus said in Matthew 24:30 and Matthew 36:64. The author of Hebrews speaks of Him coming again “not to bear sin but to bring salvation to those waiting for him” and Paul writes to the Colossians that “When Christ who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.” (Colossians 3:4) These verses among others appear to suggest that Jesus’ next coming would be to restore His people.

        Your time and thoughts are greatly appreciated! And I hope that you can understand my skepticism due to Jesus’ warnings of false messiahs.

        Reply
        • April 23, 2013 at 1:40 am
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          Dear A.J.

          Have I made you angry? You’ve made some rather extensive use of capital letter emphasis, exclamation marks and ????s, asked some pretty unforgiving questions, and made some rather presumptive suggestions regarding my faith/worship practices. I meant no disrespect and apologize if I have angered you, because that is not my intention when coming here.

          If it helps you to understand where I’m coming from a bit better: two WMSCOG members came to my door a while ago, preaching a gospel I had not heard before. I repeatedly welcomed them in over a period of several months, but if it truly was a gospel of love that was definitely not apparent to my frightened preschool children because if I asked any question that didn’t seem to be from “the script” these usually very kind members (and, at one point, a pastor) would raise their heavily accented voices and forcefully repeat some of their points while avoiding my original question. I hope you can appreciate that I don’t want to paint all WMSCOG members with that same brush and that I keep searching to find out if what I understood from my conversations with them is an accurate reflection of what the WMSCOG believes because as I’ve said before I’m pretty sure a few things were probably “lost in translation.”

          I’m not really trying to ask you what makes me wrong because I’m pretty sure I was already well instructed on those points based on the assumption that the WMSCOG is right – which is why I’m really trying to ask/figure out what makes the WMSCOG right. I confess that I come from a pretty solid Christian background and was instructed in that from birth – it’s not easy to just take that and throw it away in favor of something completely different and I’m sure that you hope that your fellow members treat their faith the same. And if you wish to make speculative suggestions that somehow lump me in with some part of mainstream Christianity, that’s fine – but to be honest that seems to be a bit counterproductive.

          In regard to the point on “it is finished:” while I had no intention of brushing Biblical prophecy aside (or treating it with contempt for that matter) I was trying to find out why/how the WMSCOG considers the redemptive work somehow partially incomplete. Am I misunderstanding that this website is stating that more redemptive work is needed because Jesus was only referring to the fulfillment of all the prophecies of the Bible and not really referring to the complete payment of our debts? (By His redemptive work I’m trying to go back to the Biblical Greek word for redemption that usually suggests the idea of a ransom or price paid) Is this website is saying that the ransom was not paid in full at that time? If so, is there any way you could elaborate on that a bit more because it’s not easy to reconcile that view with what I currently understand about the Bible and I’ll be the first to admit that my limited perspective is not the “be all and end all.” But if that’s not what this website is saying, and this website is saying that the ransom was fully paid according to Jesus’ statement, how would Jesus’ statement leave room for the need for more redemptive work to be done?

          In regard to the attainment of salvation: I am under the impression that the WMSCOG has very specific things that make me automatically unworthy of salvation, but it’s been very hard to get information on the exact requirements for attaining salvation. A small humble beginning of obedience in some form to the word of God seems completely unacceptable as I have been told that if x, y and z are not completed absolutely perfectly before death I’m eternally condemned (which would make the situation of the robber on the cross seem totally unfeasible as well, but I was told that maybe God made an exception that time which He won’t do for everybody – I hope you can understand that considering the unchanging nature of God’s purpose, this left me rather confused). What exactly does the WMSCOG say someone must do to be saved? Do I understand correctly that I need to believe and perfectly perform x, y and z (or however many things there may be) to make me worthy/ensure my salvation? And if that is the case would it be possible to nail down the “x’s, y’s and z’s” for me?

          If you find any questions offensive or anything please let me know because that is definitely not my intent!

          Thanks again for your time,
          Respectfully yours

          Reply
    • April 15, 2013 at 12:17 pm
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      Using the verse you used, Jesus said that the Counselor will come and teach us all things, and remind us of everything. Remind us of what? all the teachings of God that were abolished: Sabbath, Passover, all the Feasts (the new covenant). But who was the only one teaching those things? Christ Ahnsahnghong. So the Counselor, the Holy Spirit IS Christ Ahnsahnghong. He’s the one that brought us salvation meaning all the teachings of God: Sabbath, Passover, the Feasts (the new covenant). These are the things that are needed for our salvation that other churches aren’t teaching. Salvation is following the teachings of God, the new covenant, so that we can become worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. However, without the New Convenant, we simply cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The one who brought it is Christ Ahnsahnghong. Surely, He is our God.

      Reply
      • April 16, 2013 at 1:18 pm
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        Thanks for your time and your comments Jordan! I guess the WMSCOGs teachings have forced me to struggle with the fulfillment of Jesus’ promise to send the Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus’ promised Spirit would have never left believers because He promised that the Spirit would be with them forever. If that truly is the case how could the most important parts of Jesus’ ministry be lost until two thousand years later? Was the Spirit He sent at Pentecost so severely deficient in His work?

        I don’t intend to come across as unconstructive when I mention this but your comments appear to follow the same lines of thought as the members who visited me – the seemingly circular reasoning that is used to enforce the authority of Ahnsahnghong is a bit frightening to someone new to your gospel. I was repeatedly told that these are the things necessary for our salvation because father Ahnsahnghong taught them so he must be the Spirit, and he is the Spirit so these things must be necessary for our salvation. The language barrier may be responsible for my misunderstanding them but it is pretty tough to accept a new gospel purely based on arguments that follow that pattern which may be useful to keep in mind.

        While the WMSCOG members I’ve spoken with have vehemently denied it, the seemingly “works-based” salvation that creeps into the language of conversations also unnerves me. I think the Bible is pretty clear that we don’t become worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven by anything that we do. However, I understand that type of thinking and I think it’s something we all struggle with, as we want to see some value to our own contributions. But God presents us with a free gift of infinite value and trying to find ways to show ourselves somehow worthy of it (our metaphorical “two cents”…) only serves the idea that we can somehow put a value on that gift which, in essence, kinda cheapens it. In this life believers will only see but a small beginning of the obedience necessary to obtain eternal life on obedience’s own merits, but by the grace of God we are saved by faith and the Holy Spirit will work those small beginnings of obedience – and those beginnings may be tiny indeed before God in His infinite wisdom decides it’s our time. But I was told that unless I believe and do “x, y and z” absolutely correctly at the correct times of the year etc. I am eternally damned and since I haven’t celebrated the Passover with them yet I have to hope and pray that God doesn’t decide to end my life on earth before the next one – which doesn’t seem to fit the description of the gift of faith-based salvation found in the Bible. Did I misunderstand them when they said things like that or is that the actual gospel of the WMSCOG?

        Thanks again for your comments – I really do appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation with you!

        Reply
    • August 17, 2013 at 3:18 am
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      Hello Respectfully Yours,

      I have taken the time to read through your post and the answer is very simple. You stated that the words “it is done” is referring to a “paid in full meaning” according to the original Greek text. That may be so, However what also was “done or complete” was not only Jesus sacrifice on the cross, but also the establishment of the New Covenant. As it is written:

      Hebrews 9:15-17: For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance?now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it,because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.

      In other words, in order for the promise of the New Covenant to become effective, Jesus had to die. So the words “it is done” also refer to his work of establishing the New Covenant in order for us to be saved from sin and death. We can not be saved unless we obey the New Covenant, Hebrews 9:15-17 make this fact very clear. So with that being said, establishing the New Covenant is fulfilling all the prophecies of his first coming (Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 8:7-13 & Matthew 5:17)

      In regards to his 2nd coming, the sacrifice isn’t the sacrifice to die for our sins like that of his first coming; Gods sacrifice is the sacrifice of coming BACK to the earth in the flesh and living a life as a regular person and enduring all the pain, hardship, difficulties, persecution, temptation, etc in order to restore the truth of the New Covenant, which disappeared from the churches, which caused all of Gods children to be lead astray and unknowingly follow the devil (Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4-8) The situation of the world was a lot worse than that of his 1st coming at the time of Christ Ahnsahnghongs birth, life and death.

      About the Holy spirit: Yes the “gift of the Holy Spirit” was poured out on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:3-8, Acts 2:1-41) however there is a big difference between the “gifts of the Holy Spirit” and THE ACTUAL HOLY SPIRIT, GOD. God who is THE HOLY SPIRIT can give spiritual gifts. (1Corinthians 12:1-11) That’s what happened on the Day of Pentecost. However, the Bible teaches that God, who is the Holy spirit will come back to the earth to teach and remind. As it is written:

      John 14:26: 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

      John 15:26: When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father?the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father?he will testify about me.

      John 16:12-15: “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

      The aforementioned verses clearly show that God, who is the Holy Spirit, will come and teach the truth. This is to take place after the 1st coming, which means 2nd coming. Jesus described he will come again, playing the role of the Holy Spirit, which is to teach and remind, because Jesus is the counselor (Isaiah 9:6) and He called the counselor the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Truth, in the aforementioned verses. The Holy Spirit is also called Spirit of Truth (1 John 4:1-6) because the Holy Spirit is only working in the truth. Just as a fish can not live apart from water, the Holy Spirit can not work or exist apart from truth.

      Reply
  • April 24, 2013 at 11:41 pm
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    Slanders can’t even find a decent false claim against our God, they try to look for the smallest whole to make it as big as possible, but with true God in our side that’s impossible !

    If everything was done 2,000 ago why was the book of revelation written for the last days ? Why does it speak of the spirit and the bride giving salvation ( in other words working ) ?

    Truly those words were spoke to let us know that we fulfilled all prophecy regarding his first coming.

    I give thanks to Father and Mother for allowing there to be wmscog.org for our help.

    Reply
    • May 22, 2013 at 1:07 pm
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      Not everyone who questions the foundations of the WMSCOG ought be labeled a “slanderer” nor are they all looking for a simple small loophole to exploit in the pursuit of simply trying to discredit the WMSCOG.

      There are people out there who may not serve God with the exact methods the WMSCOG teaches but understand some of the more basic Biblical concepts like the unity of believers and truly want to understand how we are so different in the search for the truth on how to follow God in the way He wants us to. The author of Acts actually credits the Bereans (Acts 17) by calling them noble for searching the Scriptures to “double check” Paul’s message. Isn’t it kind of a shame to dismiss people by discouraging them with such a negative label so quickly? I understand that there are many people who treat you and your faith with animosity – but would it not be unbiblical to treat everyone who comes bearing questions with an equal disdain?

      This may not lead to any quick/immediate conversions one way or another but discussing the foundations of our faiths would definitely assist in determining how, though we ultimately all want to serve God the way He wants to be served, we somehow manage to go about it so radically different from each other.

      Regarding your questions – the Spirit has been doing His work since the outpouring at Pentecost (I think that to doubt that would be to doubt the certainty of Jesus’ promise). While I know we differ on the identity of the bride, I hope that you could, perhaps even just momentarily, entertain the possibility that the text could be describing Christ’s church that has been working with the Spirit to call more and more people to come and take the free gift of the water of life. The New Testament gives examples of the Spirit working through the preaching that took place from the church (1 Peter 1:12 for example) that would affirm the possible legitimacy of that view. And the verse that speaks of the Spirit and the bride directly follows Jesus’ closing comments to John regarding the testimony John had just been given, which would suggest that they were making the invitation to “Come” to all those who read his letter from then until now and not just in the very last days prior to Jesus’ coming.

      And in regard to the book of Revelation: it was written for all people who came after John – some New Testament authors already speak about themselves living in the last days (Hebrews 1:2 and James 5:3 for example) – it’s not really only for the people who live in the few years prior to the final judgment. It may be simply a book of “doom and gloom” prophecies for some who are looking to more closely determine the exact date of the end of the world. I think we can both see the value in recognizing the signs of the times even though no one will know the day or moment, but I’m sure that you also recognize it as a book that speaks about the faithfulness of God to His people to the very end of this world as we know it – which must have provided unspeakable comfort to all those who have struggled through these last days since Christ’s ascension.

      Reply
  • May 3, 2013 at 4:10 am
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    Christ saying “it is finished” meant that all prophecy related to his 1st coming we’re accomplished….but Jesus himself said that he would come again and that when he comes will he find faith Luke 18:8…now it is time to have truth faith and not follow our thought or custom and routine of our life. Romans10:17 Faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard from the word of Christ…IF you love me then obey what I command. John 14:15

    Reply
    • May 22, 2013 at 1:25 pm
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      I could not agree with you more that Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies related to his coming, but at that point when He said “It is finished” there were still some prophecies related to His first coming that had not yet been completed (Psalm 16:10, Isaiah 53:9, Zechariah 12:10 and Hosea 6:2 for example). I hope you can understand that these unfulfilled ones make it a bit difficult to simply accept the argument that Jesus was only talking about completing a certain amount of prophecy.

      If Jesus intended His words to communicate His fulfillment of all the prophecy related to His first coming would He not have stated “It is finished” after he was raised from the dead? Maybe even just prior to His ascension? If Jesus’ words spoke about something being paid in full would it not make sense that in particular that moment He would be referring to our outstanding balance against God? I’m struggling to understand how His use of an accounting term in that particular instance would apply more to a completion of prophecy instead of referring to a payment in full of our debt.

      You mention Jesus’ question “will he find faith on the earth?” but He doesn’t state that He won’t. This question comes with the parable of the persistent widow and I see it as a challenge to believers to demonstrate the persistence of that widow (though I may be under the wrong impression) as the just judge will ultimately see that they get justice. It seems a bit odd, especially in that context, to assume that Jesus asked that question to imply that His church would die out before He came anyways – wouldn’t that be utterly discouraging/disheartening and really uncharacteristic of Jesus?

      Reply
      • June 29, 2013 at 7:45 am
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        Jesus established the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins (Mt 26:28.)
        However, the new covenant was abolished during the dark ages. (It’s also the plan of god.)

        He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. (Daniel 7:25)

        According to the prophecy of Daniel, the new covenant made by Jesus changed: The Sabbath day was changed to Sunday service (321 AD), the Passover was completed abolished in 325 AD.
        So the Bible was sealed and no one except the Root of David can open it for our salvation.
        Therefore, we must seek David who will come in the last days.

        Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. ‘They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days. (Hosea 3:5)

        David, who is to come in the last days, must bring us the Passover as a sign.

        Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you, my faithful love promised to David. (Isaiah 55:3)

        The everlasting covenant or the eternal covenant is established with the blood of Jesus (Hebrews 13:20.)

        This cup [the Passover wine] is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. (Luke 22:20)

        According to the prophecies of the Bible, Christ Ahnsahnghong restored the new covenant for our salvation. And the Bible says that God Almighty would bring the Passover wine to swallow up [destroy] death forever in the last days (Isaiah 25:6-9.) Only the Passover wine can give us eternal life because it’s poured out for sinners for the forgiveness of sins (Mt 26:28.)

        It’s important to look into the Bible as a whole and know the will of God. In this age, we must believe in the Spirit and the bride who give us the water of life (Revelation 22:17.)

        Reply
  • June 29, 2013 at 4:29 am
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    Dear A.J.

    I’m here to hear you out. I’m not here to test out my pathetic debate skills on you (I’m definitely not known for them and fully accept that they will never develop to the point of being a useful asset in my case). However, I’m also not here to take your statements and believe them to be the gospel truth without further examination or questions. While that appears to frustrate you to the point of being downright condescending (I’m sorry if I mistook that but your posts definitely come across that way) I’m not offended – just a little discouraged.

    You can probably appreciate that it’s hard to hear the true meaning of the words of Christ amidst all the different interpretations of them. I think most people who want to follow Christ don’t simply ignore His statements as you imply, more than try to discern which interpretation – based on the rest of Scripture – is the most Biblical. The WMSCOG’s interpretation is not the only one, no matter how cut-and-dried it’s presented, whether it’s right or not. Wouldn’t you agree that it would be foolish of me to simply accept your interpretation without trying to establish the validity of the other foundational doctrines of your faith? It’s not that I don’t hear what you say God is saying, it’s that I’m not understanding some of the other doctrines behind your faith to the point where I could fully believe that your interpretation on every point must be the gospel truth.

    If I could easily see how all your doctrines were Biblically sound it would be a much quicker/easier conversion. But even if one or two seem unbiblical it complicates things especially because the WMSCOG teaches quite plainly that salvation cannot be found outside of their doctrines.

    I don’t intend to trouble you further if I am unwelcome, but I was hoping to see if I’m getting it straight now; based on your posts you believe that:

    1. Someone is saved if they fulfill three major requirements: have faith, attend a worship service on Saturdays, and celebrate the Lord’s Supper. People can only meet these requirements by the grace of God. These three are the most essential and if someone does not meet all three wholly and completely they will suffer eternal damnation.

    2. Jesus’ statement on the cross was a reference to the fulfillment of almost all of the prophecies related to His first coming (I only say “almost all” because at the point of His statement there were still a few left yet) and not to the complete payment/ransom for the sins of the elect of all times/places by His sacrifice

    3. Upon His crucifixion Jesus did not acquire eternal redemption for God’s elect otherwise they would all be in heaven already.

    4. Jesus’ incomplete work of redemption had to be completed during His second coming in which He again reduced Himself to a state of humility from His post-resurrection exalted state to once more live a life of sacrifice for the sins of the elect.

    5. His third and final coming will be the one in which He will bestow the full benefits of salvation (the inheritance of eternal life and complete deliverance from this life of sin) upon believers.

    6. The Holy Spirit was with the apostles until they died and with a few Christians who were directly after them. But because Jesus’ work was incomplete the Spirit would not stay with the descendants of those early Christians, or with new converts to their message and the true church died out.

    After reading this over I realize that it may sound like some sort of interrogation, but my intention was just to make it quick and easy to establish the “yes” or “no” without the additional open ended questions that would trouble you for further discussion on it in case you were uninterested. It would be greatly appreciated though if you (or anyone else) had the time and were willing to elaborate if I’ve misunderstood these or if I’ve only understood them in part.

    Thanks to anyone who reads this!

    Reply
    • June 29, 2013 at 6:57 am
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      In fact, we can get salvation by believing in God. God divided the period of Hid redemption work into three ages and allowed different Savior for each age. In the age of the Father, Jehovah was the Savior. In the age of the Son, Jesus was the Savior. And in this age, God the Holy Spirit or Christ Ahnsahnghong is the Savior.
      We keep God’s commandment by following the Word of God.

      Even though someone attends worship service on Sabbath day and celebrates the Passover and keeps all other God’s feasts, but he does not believe in the Savior of this age, he cannot be saved. Salvation comes from God only (Psalms 3:8.)

      The Bible is the book which testifies about the Savior (John 5:39.)
      By keeping the Sabbath day and the New Covenant, we can know who is true God.

      For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. (Hebrews 8:7-11)

      Those who keep the New Covenant Passover will not say ‘Know the Lord” because all who keep the New Covenant know God.

      Again, we can be saved by believing in God. And we should keep the New Covenant by the commandment of God. If we keep the New Covenant, we can realize the true God. (If not, people worship other god without know which god they are worshiping.)

      If you love me, you will obey what I command. John 14:15)
      This calls for patient endurance on the part saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

      Both faith and commandments are needed.

      Jesus said “It is finished” and than died on a cross. This means He completed all prophecies regarding His First Coming. However, there are also prophecies regarding His Second Coming. We should look into the Bible to understand the Second Coming Jesus.

      Reply
  • June 29, 2013 at 6:38 pm
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    We cannot briefly summarize God’s teachings and commandments. If you truly want to understand “the whole,” you must understand the reason why you are here on this earth through the prophecies, the words of God. Without knowing the foundation, you cannot know the reason of God’s work of redemption.

    Reply
  • November 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm
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    To say there is no need for Christ to come a second time is denying God’s redemption, which will continue until completely fulfilled; Until all is accomplished every letter in the Bible is still existing, Matthew 5:17. Without Christ appearing no one can have an opportunity of God’s redemption plan that only second coming Christ can bring. To continue to deny the words of God, picking and choosing; putting our own thoughts higher than God is to reject the very God who has come to save us. When Christ came the 1st time He underwent the same rejection; those who rejected were not saved. Christ Ahnsahnghong and Heavenly Mother are our Savior, who have appeared to give us salvation according to the prophecies written in the Bible.

    Reply

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